A Former Abortion Clinic Owner Speaks Out

                    Eric Harrah was part owner of one of the nation's largest chains of abortion
                    clinics. He recently converted to Christianity and walked away from the
                    lucrative business of killing unborn children. Dr. Willke and Brad Mattes
                    interviewed him regarding his involvement in the abortion industry.

                    Dr. W: I am curious about your function in the clinic. Were you basically a
                    business manager, owner?

                    Eric: I was an owner. My first position was Director of Public Relations and
                    then I became an owner and from there went around opening clinics Ė that was
                    my biggest function with my different partners.

                    Brad: How did you select areas to open abortion clinics?

                    Eric: There were a lot of different factors that went into a decision to open a
                    clinic. Basically, you looked in an area that didnít have a clinic in it. You would
                    get demographic numbers, from areas that had colleges or universities, with
                    the amount of abortions that had taken place prior to that. If it had a high
                    abortion rate, that would be a prime area.

                    Dr. W: How would you hire the abortionists?

                    Eric: Well, before you would even go to a town, you would usually have your
                    doctors lined up. A lot of times, doctors would contact me. There was always
                    some doctor somewhere in some town who was already doing abortions. Also,
                    in larger demographic areas (metropolitan areas) it was easy to tap any
                    number of residency programs.

                    Dr. W: These were residents whoíd moonlight?

                    Eric: That was not all I hired, but that was a very nice pool to be able to select
                    from, because they were interested. You take a resident, bring him into an
                    abortion clinic and they work part-time, even just one day a week. They can
                    make $75,000 a year, if not more, which is very beneficial to pay off their
                    student loans.

                    Brad: How many states did you have clinics in?

                    Eric: About 11 or 12.

                    Brad: And how many abortions did your chain of abortion clinics do?

                    Eric: If I take all the numbers from the time I started in the abortion industry to
                    the time I got out (10 years), we probably did about a quarter of a million total.

                    Brad: Were the abortions that were done in your clinics limited to first trimester

                    Eric: Oh, no. People in the abortion business donít want to do first trimester
                    abortions. Thatís not where the money is. The money is in mid-second to early
                    third trimester abortions.

                    Dr. W: But you canít do those in every clinic Ė or do you?

                    Eric: No. Every place has different laws. In New Jersey, you can only go to 14
                    weeks in a clinic setting, but what you do is get approved and open up a
                    surgi-center where you can get abortions done. Pennsylvania, which prides
                    itself on having some of the strictest abortion laws, actually has some of the
                    most lenient and is a mecca for late-term abortions. They go to 24 or 26 weeks
                    Ė thatís in a clinic setting. Delaware is 22-24 weeks Ė thatís in an office

                    Dr. W: Now these would be Ė what Ė D&Eís mostly?

                    Eric: D&Eís and D&Xís. I would never permit saline abortions to be done.

                    Brad: Did your staff ever delay womenís abortions so that they were kicked up
                    into the more expensive category?

                    Eric: I personally never did myself. You have to understand that I became (I
                    hope this doesnít offend you, but I want to be totally honest) a lover with Dr.
                    Steven Bringham, who Iím sure youíve known or have heard of. And he was
                    pretty infamous for that type of thing. He was also known for re-using syringes
                    and all kinds of other things that I wouldnít do.

                    Brad: And he continues to perform abortions?

                    Eric: Yes, he does. But he gets sentenced on Monday, so he might be in jail. I
                    donít know what his situation is going to be.

                    Brad: Did pro-life efforts ever stop one of your clinics from opening?

                    Eric: None of mine.

                    Brad: Would you have any advice for pro-lifers on what they might do to
                    effectively stop a clinic now?

                    Eric: Oh, there are so many things they could do. You would have to do a
                    whole separate newsletter on it. I go around speaking now to right-to-life
                    groups clueing them in on what to do.

                    Brad: Are there effective ways the pro-life movement can stop abortion clinics
                    from opening?

                    Eric: Oh, there are many peaceful, nonviolent ways that are totally legal that
                    would not be part of the supposed, alleged RICO conspiracy by now. Yes, look
                    into and act while your town does not have an abortion clinic in it. Enact laws
                    preventing medical, surgical centers from being located within the city limits.
                    Most towns donít worry about this until it happens, and by the time it happens,
                    itís too late. You can pass very legitimate restrictions. There are laws they can
                    pass about hazardous waste..

                    Brad: How did you get into the abortion area to begin with?

                    Eric: I was with some friends on our way to the beach, and we saw a
                    right-to-life protest. I didnít even know there was an abortion clinic in my
                    hometown. At that time I considered myself to be pro-choice. I was very liberal,
                    politically. We pulled into the clinic and asked if there was anything we could
                    do to help. They said we could join NOW. I joined. I became secretary of my
                    county chapter. A year later I became vice president of the Delaware state
                    chapter, and a year-and-a-half after that, I became their first male ever elected
                    president. I quit my affiliation with NOW years ago. I started to become very
                    disturbed by a lot of their rhetoric, a lot of their hate, a lot of what I perceived to
                    be their racism. You have groups such as NOW, the National Abortion Rights
                    Action League and many other groups who do nothing but live off the blood of
                    aborted children. Their interest in keeping abortion legal is not so much
                    because they care about womenís rights Ė or that they are actually pro-choice.
                    Their true interest in keeping abortion legal, in my opinion, is so they can keep
                    their big, fancy offices in Washington, their nice clothing expenses and their
                    personal expense accounts.

                    Brad: When you were involved in this industry, what was your annual income?

                    Eric: When I walked away from the clinics, I walked away from everything. I left
                    my ownership and my money there. I wanted nothing else to do with it. The
                    average doctor who does abortions one day a week at a clinic averages 25-40
                    abortions. He will walk away in his pocket with an average of
                    $100,000-$125,000 a year. An average clinic that performs roughly around
                    8,000 abortions will gross approximately $1 million a year.

                    Dr. W: One doctor can do that? Thatís full time, though.

                    Eric: No, itís not. Not at all. Abortion clinics, Dr. Willke, are set up like cattle
                    slaughtering centers. You get Ďem in and you get Ďem out. I would say,
                    honestly, about 60%-70% of all abortions takes place on Saturdays.

                    Brad: How many women do they usually schedule in a day?

                    Eric: The maximum Iíve ever seen get done in a day is probably 50-60 women.
                    Usually, that takes two abortionists, but I have seen doctors kick out 40-50
                    patients by themselves. First trimester cases Ė if you have a doctor whoís
                    been doing it for a while and he knows what heís doing Ė you can push through
                    6-7 an hour. And that goes back to the whole issue too of how little regulation
                    there is. Even within PA, which prides itself on being the bastion for restrictive
                    abortion laws, there really are no regulations. Thereís nobody to monitor these
                    facilities. Thereís nobody who tracks the money that comes from the birth
                    control companies that flood through the clinics Ė the paybacks. Thereís
                    nobody who tracks the insurance companies that give incentives to physicians
                    for performing abortions, because insurance companies would rather pay for
                    abortions than pay for a full labor and delivery.

                    Dr. W: You get those incentive payments?

                    Eric: Oh yeah, they flow like water. If youíre a participating member of an
                    insurance company, they will give you incentives to perform an abortion. First
                    trimester abortions are $250, and insurance companies such asÖIíve seen
                    them pay over $2,000 for those abortions, because they would rather pay
                    $2,000-$2,500 for a first trimester case than pay $7,000-$8,000 for prenatal,
                    labor and delivery.

                    Brad: So do you, as the clinic owner, pocket that money?

                    Eric: Oh, definitely.

                    Brad: Let me ask you about your attitude and contact with the women.

                    Eric: I would make their appointments. I would sit and talk to them in the
                    waiting room. I would go into the procedure rooms with them. When I first got
                    started, I was very truly concerned about the women who were having
                    abortions, but, as in most cases, there are two reasons why people get
                    involved in the abortion industry. The first is money. The second is because
                    they really feel that itís helping women. But even those people who get involved
                    because they think itís helping women Ė at some point in time convert to the
                    fact that itís all about money. So you stop looking at women after a certain
                    point in time as being people that youíre helping and you just start looking at
                    them as dollar bills.

                    Brad: Thatís what happened to you?

                    Eric: Definitely. I found myself, probably the last half of the time that I was
                    involved in the abortion industry, very depressed about it, which led to a
                    cocaine drug addiction, and toward the very end, I think I ended up hating

                    Brad: Why was that?

                    Eric: I think it was because of the depression and guilt that I felt, myself, and I
                    was blaming them for it Ė for coming in and having this abortion Ė especially
                    the woman that you would see time and time and time again. There was one
                    patient who came in and had 16. Even the doctors who do the abortion
                    become hateful toward the patients Ė they become mean, rough.

                    Brad: So the average woman didnít get compassionate counseling when she
                    went in there?

                    Eric: I would say she got counseling, but compassion Ė no.

                    Brad: What kind of counseling did she get? Itís my impression there hasnít
                    been much.

                    Eric: In my facilities, I always gave option counseling. Of course you make the
                    abortion the most appealing. I told them about adoption and about foster care
                    and about (when there was welfare) assistance. The typical way it would go is,
                    "Well, you know you can place your baby out for adoption." But then, in the
                    second breath you would say, "Thatís an option available to you, but you also
                    have to realize that thereís going to be a baby of yours out here somewhere in
                    the world you will never see again.. At least with abortion you know whatís
                    happening. You can go on with your life."

                    Brad: So were the options more for your benefit to ease your conscience than
                    for the women?

                    Eric: I would say that it was more for my conscience because, to be honest
                    with you, I really didnít care.

                    Dr. W: And the longer you were in it, the less you cared?

                    Eric: Yes, exactly, Dr. Willke. The longer I was in it, the less I cared, so I
                    really didnít really care what my conscience said. My conscience was totally
                    numb anyway. But what it did do was public relations-wise. You were able,
                    when a reporter or TV crew came, to pull out a packet of information for the
                    patients to read and they received it. So what can anybody say? Publicly it
                    looked good Ė in reality it was another tool that was used to force a woman
                    into abortion. Itís typical Ė I would give them an option and then shoot it down.
                    The only option you didnít shoot down, obviously, was abortion.

                    Eric: And then, again, Dr. Willke and Brad, if they came in for an abortion Ė if
                    they were scared, hey, inject them with some Fentanyl. It costs you two
                    bucks. Knock Ďem out. You guarantee them theyíll never feel a thing. Theyíd
                    come in and say, "Oh, Iím scared to deathÖ. I donít want to have this memory
                    for the rest of my life." Iíd say, "Sweetheart, there wonít be any memories. We
                    can give you an anesthetic that will knock you out. It costs me two bucks, but
                    Iím going to charge you a hundred bucks extra for it. Iím going to give you
                    some birth control pills when you leave."  And then you have the drug
                    companies who would come in and throw these lavish parties and dinners for
                    the clinic staff to get the doctors to write prescriptions for them. The
                    prescriptions were written not necessarily based on what medication was best
                    for the patient. It was written on who gave the best party the week before. Did
                    the rep bring in the best donuts Ė did the rep bring the best pizza? Did they
                    give nice golf clubs this year?

                    Brad: Were there any direct financial incentives by drug companies?

                    Eric: Yes, there were.

                    Eric: And while there was legislation to curb that, it still goes on. You have to
                    understand that drug reps worked on commission. Their income is generated
                    by how many of their "scripts" are being refilled at local pharmacies.

                    Dr. W: Let me ask about picketing out front. Did you have that in front of some
                    of your places? And what influence did that have?

                    Eric: It depended on what kind of picketing it was. I found that it did nothing but
                    infuriate people and the woman who came in. What worked, and what I hated
                    the most, were the sidewalk counselors who would stand there and give a
                    brochure about the local CPC. Those were the most effective, because thatís
                    when the girl would stop to have a conversation.

                    Dr. W: And some of those women never came in?

                    Eric: Yes.

                    Brad: You saw those dollar bills walking away.

                    Eric: You never minded it when the men were outside picketing, because that
                    was good, especially if they were loud and obnoxious, telling women they were
                    going to go to hell. That was productive because they would come in and say,
                    "Who do they think they are telling me what to do?" Women were much more
                    effective at it than men, definitely. We knew which one was going to be
                    successful. What I found, in my personal experience, is that the women didnít
                    usually respond to younger women because they would typically look at them
                    and say, "Youíre my age Ė what do you know?" But who they did respond to
                    was older women Ė middle-aged women and senior citizen women because I
                    think, in their minds, those women had valuable advice.

                    Dr. W: Did you have escorts to help bring the women in?

                    Eric: Yes, at times, yes, we did.

                    Dr. W: And was that effective on your part?

                    Eric: It was effective when the picketers were rowdy. When the picketers were
                    calm, it backfired on you because it was like you were trying to drag the
                    women in.When the picketers are loud, women are looking for someone to get
                    them into that clinic. So you would always hope, on Saturdays especially
                    (thatís the biggest day for picketing), that the picketers would be rowdy and

                    Dr. W: Is there any particular piece of literature that you recall that you feared
                    the most?

                    Eric: Yes, one by your group, actually, that I used to hate. It was the one that
                    you did about fetal development.

                    Dr. W: "Did You Know?"

                    Eric: Yes, that was the one we hated the most. That really used to tick us off.
                    And actually what we would do is (I shouldnít tell you this, but), the
                    right-to-lifers would get tired and they would put their stuff down on the
                    sidewalk, and theyíre talking and weíd go over and take all their literature and
                    just run with it.

                    Brad: What about your lifestyle as an abortion clinic owner. Your chain was
                    one of the largest in the nation, is that correct?

                    Eric: Yes, it was. The thing I enjoyed, as an abortionist, were the number of
                    celebrities and politicians who treat you as though you were a hero. Whoopie
                    Goldberg, Cybil Shepard, Morgan FairchildÖpeople who would come to
                    pro-choice functionsÖpoliticians who would actually court you. I had VIP
                    seating at five Supreme Court nomination hearings.

                    Brad: You enjoyed material possessions too, I would imagine.

                    Eric: Yes. The travel, the money was just there. It was a very, very comfortable
                    living. And it was easy money.

                    Dr. W: We hear that the number of abortionists is declining, is aging, and that
                    worries the industry.

                    Eric: The number of these abortionists, yes, is declining, but what is
                    increasing now is what's called "docs in a box", doctors who hold licenses in
                    anywhere from 5 to 20 states and spend their time flying from state to state
                    just doing abortions. You also have what are called "mega-docs" who totally
                    control a certain geographic area. Those are on the increase.. You should see
                    the anti-trust laws that are being broken by abortion providers Ė the "carteling",
                    as we used to call it, where you would get together for a friendly lunch and
                    decide what fee was going to be charged. The reason I was hated so much by
                    the people in the abortion industry was that I was a cartel-breaker. If I went into
                    a town where first trimester abortions started out at $275, I would go in and
                    charge $200, because I knew that the clinic had been around for five or six
                    years and already had a kind of debt. I was coming in and starting from
                    scratch. The thing was to go in and force them to shut down. Itís a very
                    cutthroat business, very backstabbing and very physically dangerous too.

                    Dr. W: Youíve known doctors doing abortions who were physically injured or
                    lost their lives?

                    Eric: No, I never knew of anybody who lost their lives. I do know doctors who
                    were physically threatened. Usually the way it happened is, if you were going
                    to go into an area where they already were, and they didnít want any
                    competition, they were usually very friendly. Theyíd give you a call, telling you
                    that your services were not needed. If you persisted, theyíd persist a little bit
                    heavier. But Iím not that stupid. Itís not worth my aggravation.

                    Brad: When you left the industry, you left everything behind?

                    Eric: Yes, I did. I didnít see how I could call myself a Christian and be living off
                    the fruits of the abortion business. That made no sense to me. And I prayed
                    about it, and God told me to leave it all behind.

                    Dr. W: And what are you living off of now?

                    Eric: I go around and speak at churches. I did my first CPC benefit a few
                    months ago Ė I have a couple more of those booked. Iím writing a book.

                    Brad: Tell us about your book.

                    Eric: The book Iím writing tells the story of my life in the abortion business. But
                    itís also a tell-all book about the abortion industry itself and it also gets into the
                    areas of my life I was involved in, which was homosexuality and how prevalent
                    homosexuality actually is in the abortion business. "The girls do carry on," as
                    we used to say.

                    Dr. W: Homosexual males or homosexual females?

                    Eric: Both, and Iíll tell you what Ė the lesbians are far worse than the males.
                    Anytime you have a feminist health care center that does abortions, theyíre
                    often all lesbians. Within the abortion business itself, thereís this love/hate
                    relationship between the feminists and the abortion doctors, because the
                    majority of the doctors are men.

                    Dr. W: Youíre doing something they want doneÖ

                    Eric: But they hate you because youíre a man. Over the last couple of years
                    groups such as NOW, NARAL and The Fund no longer control the abortion
                    industry. They did for a while, but the feminists no longer control it. What you
                    have now is a bigger struggle going on now between them and Planned
                    Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is hated by any doctor or [abortion] clinic
                    that is independently owned and operated. Their [Planned Parenthood] bread
                    and butter is the abortions that they do. They donít do it because they care
                    about women. Thatís where the majority of their money comes from. Planned
                    Parenthood is shrewd, though, because itís easier for a politician to stand
                    behind Planned Parenthood to support them than it is to stand behind some
                    entrepreneurial businessman or woman who has an independent clinic. Itís
                    more socially acceptable.

                    Dr. W: Yes, PP has an image of doing it legitimately.

                    Eric: Yes, but what PP also has within the business itself is their record of
                    being racist, squashing competition and outright lying about competition to
                    squash them. What PP wants is a monopoly in the abortion business.

                    Brad: Tell us about how you switched from pro-abortion to pro-life.

                    Eric: I grew up in the Church, so I knew that abortion was wrong. Iíd say about
                    the last five years I was having serious depression and guilt over my
                    involvement, which led to my cocaine addiction. I saw myself doing things like,
                    in the morning, getting up and watching the 700 Club, just trying to have some
                    tie back to my Christian roots, I guess you could say. Finally, when I came to
                    State College in Pennsylvania to open a clinic (which I didnít want to come
                    here), it was nice to have someone Ė a right-to-life group Ė who came to me
                    and didnít ridicule me or call me names but reached out to me.

                    Brad: Give us some detail of how they reached out to you.

                    Eric: Well, there was a big battle getting the clinic open here in State College.
                    I was on the front page of the paper, I think, for forty-some odd days straight. It
                    was the biggest news story, I think, ever to hit this town. There were protests,
                    prayer marches and all kinds of things that the right-to-lifers did to shoot me
                    down for opening, but I was able to overcome it. (Thereís a whole bunch of
                    other things that happened behind the scenes that people donít know about,
                    which included secret agreements and secret deals with officials and different
                    things.) So the clinic finally opened and there were massive protests every
                    day. I said to the people with my clinic: "Donít be scared. Right-to-lifers are
                    very fickle ( I still stand behind that). They will come out and they will picket us
                    very heavily for the first month or so, and then the numbers will dwindle until
                    eventually thereíll be hardly anybody here protesting." And that came to pass,
                    as it always had. But that day, they came and told me that there was a
                    football team outside picketing, and I went outside with my bodyguards to see
                    what was going on. There was just one gentleman standing there in a Penn
                    State football sweatshirt who started talking to me.

                    Brad: But he reached out to you with love and not hate and that made the

                    Eric: Exactly, yes.

                    Brad: Was it a lonely existence where you were at that time?

                    Eric: Oh, it was very lonely. I hated State College. I had spent the majority of
                    my time shuttling between New York, Los Angeles, London and Paris. I grew
                    up in small, podunk town and I vowed that I would get out of it, and I did. I
                    thought that I had failed. Iím back where I started, even though I really wasnít. I
                    always tell the story when I go to speak that a homosexualís worst nightmare
                    is to be stuck in a town where thereís no Macy's and no Starbuck's. This town
                    had neither. It was a very lonely existence, yes. Steven Bringham decided it
                    was too hot to be here politically, so he stayed back in our homes in New
                    Jersey and Connecticut.

                    Brad: You shared homes together then?

                    Eric: Yes, we did.

                    Brad: You made a radical changeÖ

                    Eric: No, I didnít make a radical change. God made a radical change in me. I
                    did nothing. I did nothing but bend to the will of God, like I should have done a
                    long time ago. I did nothing to change myself Ė God changed me Ė because if
                    it was up to me, and left to my own devices, I canít save myself and I canít
                    change my way of thinking. The old me wouldnít have walked away from
                    thousands upon thousands of dollars a week and millions of dollars in the bank
                    Ė for what? To go out and get $400 to $1,000 to speak at a CPC banquet,
                    when I was making a hundred times that a week? Itís not about me, itís about
                    God. And thatís what I want people to understand.

                    Dr. W: How do you view violence to stop abortions from being performed?

                    Eric: I do not accept, nor will I ever tolerate, anyone who label themselves a
                    Christian or a pro-lifer who advocates violence, killing someone because
                    theyíre involved in the abortion business. That person is not pro-life.

                    Dr. W: I agree with you strongly.

                    Eric: Dr. Willke, the reason I agreed to do an interview with you is because,
                    over the years, you have stayed consistent. You never advocated violence.
                    Every piece of information I ever saw that you put out was truthful, it was
                    honest and it was never hate-filled.

                    Brad: You recently came out of the abortion industry. Tell us about some of
                    the new things pro-lifers should be concerned about.

                    Eric: The non-surgical, Methotrexate/Misoprostil abortions. Thatís a whole
                    other racket. By the time you count the two medications and the needle you
                    need to give the injection, itís going to cost you around $15. I was charging
                    anywhere from $375 and others charged as much as $600. Now, hereís the big
                    racket they do with it. They bring these women in and they know itís only good
                    up until about 7 or 8 weeks. A woman comes in at 9 or 10 weeks and they tell
                    her about this wonderful non-surgical abortion. Sheís so desperate not to have
                    to have the surgery that she opts for the non-surgical procedure. They know
                    itís going to fail and then they tell her, "Now weíre going to give this to you, but
                    if it fails, youíre going to have to pay us for a surgical abortion."

                    Dr. W: And totally unregulated.

                    Eric: Dr. Willke, Abortion is totally unregulated! Anybody can open up an
                    abortion clinic. Almost any doctor can work there, even anesthesiologists. A
                    can do an abortion because he or she has MD or DO after their name.

                    Brad: Did you have experiences in your clinics with chemical abortions?

                    Eric: Oh, yes. We were one of the first ones in the country to do it. And,
                    actually, it got to the point where we'd say, "You come in, sweetheart. You
                    donít like needles? Thatís okay, weíll fix you up on Methotrexate in a glass of
                    orange juice and it works in the exact same way."

                    Dr. W: How about the RU 486? Were you in on any of those trials?

                    Eric: No, I was never in on any of those trials because I didnít want to be
                    because the FDA will regulate RU 486 very strictly.

                    Dr. W: You know thereís a certain battle fatigue out there in Right-to-Life

                    Eric: I understand that people are tired, but they need to get re-energized.
                    They need to know that their efforts have made a difference. Unfortunately,
                    they donít hear that enough.

                    Dr. W: The one thing that has really energized pro-lifers has been partial-birth

                    Eric: That has totally floored me! The American people also need to know,
                    when they talk about abortion at 14, 15 or 16 weeks, you pull a baby apart to
                    get it out. I have seen my fair share of D&X abortions done over the years. I
                    started to see more abortions that were done on fetuses where the baby was
                    born whole and was left there to die. With the advent of new medications to
                    help in labor, there is not such a need to do the gruesome D&X abortions.

                    Brad: She essentially went into premature labor, is that what they did?

                    Eric: Exactly, yes. They would cause premature labor, she would be delivered
                    and the fetus would be put aside to die.

                    Brad: How do you think pro-lifers have fared in the public forum?

                    Eric: You know what the most hated commercial that the right-to-lifers ever put
                    out was? It was "Life, What a Beautiful Choice". We hated that commercial. It
                    even made me feel guilty, showing these beautiful babies.

                    Brad: Did you experience anything with Post-Abortion Syndrome?

                    Eric: Yes, itís rampant Ė and, actually, I had Post-Abortion Syndrome. Thatís
                    why I became a cocaine addict. I hated putting babies in strainers and rinsing
                    them off and putting them in zip-lock bags. I consider myself to be an
                    abortion-survivor because I was on a fast track of dying because of it.
                    Post-Abortion Syndrome is very prevalent Ė very, very prevalent.

                    Brad: So you saw it in women?

                    Eric: I saw it in women ten minutes after the abortion. I saw it in women a year
                    after the abortion. They would call begging for help.

                    Brad: What was your response to them?

                    Eric: "Youíll get over it, sweetie. Your hormones are going crazy right now. As
                    soon as your hormones calm down, youíll be fine." That was the standard line
                    that was given.

                    Dr. W: And, of course, it didnít mean a thing.

                    Eric: No, it didnít. But, you know, it bought you some time with them. It was
                    implanted in their minds that there was nothing wrong with them. It was their

                    Dr. W: And they went away?

                    Eric: They went away, but at some point in time, they would usually re-surface
                    again. In my clinic we had protocols for what to do when people threatened
                    suicide. They would call six months after the abortion. They couldnít stand it
                    anymore. They were going to kill themselves and you had to keep them on the
                    line and then call a crisis mental center and get intervention.

                    Brad: So the abortion industry is aware of Post-Abortion Syndrome?

                    Eric: Yes, but they deny it.

                    Dr. W: How about effect on men?

                    Eric: What I did see was this little game that was played, where the men
                    would come in with these girls and say, "Oh, honey, right now is not the right
                    time to have the baby, but go ahead and have the abortion and weíll have
                    another baby and get married soon." Then, as soon as the abortion was over
                    with, heíd dump her. That happens constantly. And I would tell girls, "Donít you
                    even think for a minute that heís going to be back when youíre back here for
                    your checkup, because heís going to be gone." "No, Eric, itís not like that.
                    You donít understand him like I do." And then, a month later: "You were right,
                    Eric. He left me."

                    Dr. W: Sweet-talk her into it and then leave her there.

                    Eric: Exactly. Leave her there. Iíve seen guys drop girls off at the abortion
                    clinic, pay for the abortion, sit around and wait until they hear the suction
                    machines start Ė then they know itís over and theyíre gone. Wonít even take
                    her home! Iíve seen that more than I can remember. Iíve seen all kinds of

                    Dr. W: Eric, we really do thank you for your time and your straightforward
                    answers. I encourage you to keep writing your book. &127;

[Interview courtesy of Abortionfacts.com]

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